Re: Bathroom Morals...

	Duration: 09:47 minutes Upload Time: 07-06-08 03:12:56 User: Neotrific :::: Favorites
Description: video response.
Comments
DaveKerwin77 ::: Favorites 1. What religion was it that was in mesopotamia? 2. What makes a white tail deer's alert system moral instead of instinctual? 3. How would you define the difference between culture and morality? 4. Way to have the balls to put this in a vid instead of a comment. 07-06-08 16:21:10 _____________________________________________________
MightyTiny ::: Favorites Nice video - I agree, of course, that basic morality has evolutionary roots. However, somehing stuck out that I'd like to question. The claim that self-sacrifice evolved for the benefit of the group. That sounds very dubious - how would that evolve, in practice? How would the genetic trait of self-sacrifice for the benefit of the group NOT be out-competed by rogue genes in the group that would not agree to an ultimate sacrifice for the group, and and let others dot the sacrificing? 07-06-08 09:55:38 _____________________________________________________
MightyTiny ::: Favorites I do not know the specific case of the witetail dear, but I wonder if it has been shown that the individual giving the singnal is more likely to be targeted by a predator, than other individuals in the herd? I find myself very sceptical that that is the case. I think true self sacrifice can evolve only if the group is mostly consisted of genetically very close family... 07-06-08 09:58:25 _____________________________________________________
MightyTiny ::: Favorites ..and in the case of humans sacrificing themselves, I think the evolutionary explanation is affected by the presense of higher cognition - I do suspect that human self sacrifice cannot be explained within the same forms of altruism that cases of animal self sacrifice can. The crucial difference, I suspect, is the uniquely human propensity to form very tight coalitions; and that the evolution of coalitional behaviour is what enabled "true" self sacrifice. 07-06-08 10:01:19 _____________________________________________________
Neotrific ::: Favorites Altruism is nevertheless a noble attribute, yet one that likely evolved as a survival mechanism. It get so complex and difficult to express. Most of the books I reference, though not presented, go into excruiating detail. 07-06-08 13:01:47 _____________________________________________________
MightyTiny ::: Favorites I agree - the origins of altruism in the "cold" calculated advantage of genes behind such atributes, don't devalue the actual trait of altruism in any way. After all, those who are altruistic, however they got that trait, act altruistically not because of some consciously calculated cost-benefit analysis, but because they feel compassion and the need to act when others face peril. 07-06-08 14:33:45 _____________________________________________________
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thediscerningreader ::: Favorites And Diamond even talks about how Gazelle's give ostentatious signals to lions so that lions don't chase after them. These signals would seem to give lions an unnecessary head-start, but they in fact protect the gazelle. If you want more details, refer to the book, or I can send you a private message about it. 07-06-09 02:38:36 _____________________________________________________
Neotrific ::: Favorites Absolutely. Thank you. Would like to check the book out. 07-06-09 03:30:29 _____________________________________________________
MightyTiny ::: Favorites I would also contest your idea as to why religiosity evolved, on empirical grounds; while the major religions do tend to focus on the survival of the "soul", and dealing with the aspect of the "big questions", many smaller, tribal belief systems don't adress these questions at all, but rather focus exclusively on what to do with the dead; the focus is entirely on the living. 07-06-08 10:07:25 _____________________________________________________
MightyTiny ::: Favorites I would strongly recommend a book by Pascal Boyer, modestly called "Religion Explained". It is a remarkable book, truly. It starts by pretty much demonstrating why the most common explanations for religions are insufficient; they don't cover all incarnations of religion. It then proceeds to analyse similarities across all belief systems, and this proves to be a very revealing exercise. Some of the best insights on religion I've ever encountered are contained within that book. 07-06-08 10:10:59 _____________________________________________________
thediscerningreader ::: Favorites The notion of altruism for group benefit is outmoded. It is not supported by Dawkins, E.O Wilson, and others major figures in ethology because the evidence does not support it. Altruism may in fact be a result of sexual selection. A good explanation of this is found in Jared Diamond's book "The Third Chimpanzee". They don't come much more credentialed than Dr. Diamond, either. 07-06-09 02:37:15 _____________________________________________________
Neotrific ::: Favorites Diamond is pure gold in these kinds of talks. Dawkins is impeccable in his arguments, and relentless in an almost easy-going manner. He's pure entertainment when he goes into action. 07-06-09 03:31:59 _____________________________________________________
ExistenceMatters ::: Favorites While the survival of the herd might be loosely interpreted as "morals for the greater good" - you can also look at species who will turn on their own wounded for food, which would hardly fit into our perception of morality. 07-06-08 08:06:38 _____________________________________________________
thediscerningreader ::: Favorites Depends on the circumstances. I believe there was that soccer team whose plane crashed, and in order to survive, they resorted to cannibalism. 07-06-09 02:31:57 _____________________________________________________
ExistenceMatters ::: Favorites This was really interesting... my two bits: Hamer is also responsible for the "gay gene". Until his research can be replicated, ditto a "god gene". Cortez was largely aided and abetted by Montezuma being a petronoid freak. The Mesopotamians totally ripped off the Sumerians 'organized' religion, and the early creation stories. 07-06-08 08:05:40 _____________________________________________________
Neotrific ::: Favorites I wouldn't say they ripped them off, but rather they adhered to a particularly human propensity to look first for answers in ethereal realms--and further adding that science is the cultural evolution, an adaptation, that supercedes our superstitious/religiosity-prone genetic inheritance. And even our ability to cultural adapt occurrs at the behest of a genetic potential to do so. In this, there is hope for humankind. 07-06-08 13:06:39 _____________________________________________________
steelejk ::: Favorites You are the bomb. 07-06-08 07:59:35 _____________________________________________________
TheoreticalBullshit ::: Favorites Hey man, great points... thanks for the vid. 07-06-08 04:03:41 _____________________________________________________
Neotrific ::: Favorites Thank you 07-06-08 04:08:11 _____________________________________________________